Bay Windows Poorly Constructed?

[PSE]

We have noticed our ground floor bay windows (three sided) with a GRP canopy on the top don't seem very well fitted. 

On the bay window UPVC frame where the two sides joins the brickwork is setback from the brickwork by approx 65mm but when we've checked other bay windows on the development where the UPVC frames join the brickwork they seem to be flush.  Also where the GRP canopy fits to the wall its left a triangle piece where the window frame is set back that has had two triangle pieces of UPVC added on to cover the gap (please see attached photos).  Also they used UPVC packing pieces on the sides of the framework to fill the gaps either side.

We also keep getting cracking internally at the window/wall junction that has been repaired on at least two occasions but comes back in exactly the same places.  The window installer returned and tried to screw 120mm screws from the framework to the brickwork in a hope to rectify this but due to the large gap and angle none of the three screws used actually hit the brickwork.

In my opinion the bay windows have not been constructed correctly and then they've bodged it to try to make it look good.  I should also add that the rooms with the bay windows seemed cold last winter and this could be related to the windows.

Any help and advice will be gratefully received.

Thank you.

 

[New Home Expert]

Yes this looks a bit of a lash up to me and Bellway Homes should be ashamed!

As the bay is not square with the brickwork, a cut brick or "squint" is required so the window can sit flat on the brick reveal.
Judging by the triangular pieces added to the soffit, it shows a lack of care used to build your home.

The internal cracks may be caused by high winds slightly lifting the GRP canopy.
The best solution would be to tape and joint over the cracks.
As for bay window rooms being cold, it is probable that insulation was left out of the bay roof space, or bay cill or both.

[PSE]

Thank you for your advice. 

In your opinion, what would the builder need to do to make these good??  Would it be to add the cut bricks as you've stated or is it too late now for them or will they just try to bodge it again?

Thank you once again.

[New Home Expert]

It is never too late!  No one has died  But I expect they will "Try to bodge it again"

I doubt Bellway will get the bricks cut, arrange a bricklayer to cut out the old ones and fit the correct bricks, then send someone else out to re fix the window and re mastic and clear away all the rubble.
Even if they did, the mortar probably wouldn't match.
The ceiling would have to come down to fit insulation and the cill and then fit a new soffit that is cut correctly.

You could ask Bellway CEO, Ted Ayers if he would accept what you have in his house.
Show him my photo of how it should have been done!

[PSE]

Thank you for your reply again.

I did email NHBC Technical Services regarding this and this was the reply I got:
 

"The BS 8213 is the code of practice for the survey and installation of windows and door sets, the manufacturer will likely refer to this standard in their documentation for fitters but it does not fall under NHBC Standards.
 
In terms of where the frame should be positioned, this is covered by the Building Regulations for cold bridging, the frame should sit over the cavity closer by a minimum 30mm As detailed in the accredited details on the planning portal website - www.planningportal.gov.uk/.
 
We are unable to comment on whether any repairs would be required and if you believe the installation of the windows to be defective, you should discuss matters with NHBC Claims on 0800 035 6422 or by email at claims@nhbc.co.uk who will confirm how NHBC can assist you under the terms and conditions of the NHBC Buildmark warranty."

Thanks again.
 

[New Home Expert]

From what I can see in the NHBC Standards, British Standards and Codes of Practice can be deemed to meet NHBC Standards requirements.  It follows that any non compliance with a British Standard would mean it does not meet NHBC Standards and as such a claim is valid.

I must say that I find the NHBC's response dismissive. Such an attitude does their reputation no favours.

I would suggest you contact the NHBC and make an official claim under your new home warranty.

[PSE]

Thank you for your reply.

I have already put a claim in with the NHBC yesterday and awaiting a response.

Thanks again.

[PercyMann7]

This bay window "birds mouth" detail went out of favour about 10 years ago. I can't believe that this is still on the architects drawing?
Percy.

[PSE]

Thank you for your advice and comments.

Just to update you after I have viewed our bay windows and other bay windows from identical plots in detail I am sure both our bay windows have been built/set out wrong? (please see attached pdf files)

Based on the bay window in the pdf file from our plot if you count the bricks from the corner of the elevation to corner of the brick bay below sill height the count is 3.5 and on identical plots and elevations the count is also 3.5 bricks.  If you count the bricks from the corner of the elevation up to the UPVC window from above sill height on our plot and on the same elevation the count is also 3.5 bricks but on other plots the count is 4 bricks on exactly the same elevation.  Also if you look at where the angle of the stone sill starts in relation to the brickwork above the stone sill on our plot the brickwork is approximately 0.5 bricks short of where the angle starts but on other plots the brickwork goes up to where the angle starts.

Based on these facts what would the builder need to do to make this correct and not bodge it (again).

Any advice or help will be gratefully received.



 

[New Home Expert]

It would explain why you have a large filler piece of plastic from the window to the brickwork, to hide a gap where the missing half brick would/should be.

It would be better to comment on what Bellway Homes now propose to do (if anything)

[PSE]

Thank you for your reply.

Originally the builder was going to replace the windows but since I've noticed the mistake I don't actually know yet.

I also asked about the cut bricks but were told they would show me the drawing to prove not. (not seen it yet though)

I'll update when they visit next week.

[PSE]

Just to update you.

Bellway Homes were due to visit today regarding the issue with the bay windows but cancelled yesterday due to having a meeting with the Construction Director with regards to all our outstanding issues. They also said they would either email or write to me with the outcome from the meeting.  I found this a little strange as normally they just email? 

I called them today, as the suspense was killing me and they stated with regards to the bay windows that they would not be making the bays windows good to drawing (like everyone else's except one other that's been built incorrect like ours).  I asked what they proposed to do and their answer was to leave everything as it is but additionally to UPVC clad the soffit and scribe in the two triangles and then to clad the upstand part up to GRP roof part.   

I stated that I will not be accepting this as it is just another bodge job and if we ever need to change the windows in years to come the cladding would probably need to be removed.

[New Home Expert]

You are right to not accept Bellway's "proposals"
It is also disgusting that, having said they will write to you (e mail or letter) it was you that needed to call them to find out what the outcome of their "meeting" was.

I agree with you, this "proposal" is just another bodge job to cover over their even worse "workmanship".
Furthermore, you have a contractual right to have your home built and to look like the working drawings.
I would escalate this to the NHBC.  And to CEO Ted Ayres.

It would certainly be one for the New Homes Ombudsman when or if it is set up by government.

[PSE]

Thank you for your advice and comments.

Email just sent to Mr Ayres.

[PSE]

Just to update you.

After emailing Ted Ayres regarding this we received an email from the Customer Care Manager stating that they would not be able to write to us regarding this as they had received a email from Head Office to look into this. 

Today we received a letter from the MD stating "Whilst the windows have been installed using a slightly different detail to some others on the development there is no construction defect." they then go on to say "However, we do agree that the infill pieces at the top corners of the windows do need addressing and we will attend to this by over-cloaking the soffit and fascia boards to the GRP bay roof....."

We found this letter contradictory as surely if there was no construction defect why do the soffits not fit and require triangle infills?? and then in the next sentence they state the infill pieces at the top corners needs addressing?? yes because surely there is a construction defect??  Either it all should be wrong or it all should be right but not one of each??