Author Topic: Amtico flooring tolerances  (Read 537 times)

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steveball

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Amtico flooring tolerances
« on: August 30, 2018, 10:32:29 pm »
We are currently in dispute with our builder and the NHBC about the inconsistency in the level of the floor post the Amtico flooring being installed. We instructed our builder to complete a survey as we were not happy with the unevenness, and they were only happy to repair one part of the floor. Due to this we instructed the NHBC who I believe are not conforming to the correct guidelines when measuring the high\low points of the flooring, although they identified two areas, one of which the builder identified.

The entire of our ground floor is a concrete slab...

To my understanding the standards are as follows

9.1.5 - This is the tolerance of the unfinished floor to +\-5mm
and
9.3.7 - Flexible finish, in our case Amtico is a flexible vinyl and as such has to be installed to the manufacturers guidelines +\-3mm

Amtico have advised, along with the Contract Flooring Association, the flooring is to be installed on a concrete screed to BS8203 SR1 (this is +\-3mm) however the NHBC are saying it is their guidelines which are to be followed, and they are using +\-5mm which I can only assume is related to 9.1.5 - an unfinished floor. This information has been emailed to the NHBC as an attachment from the manufacturer.

Over multiple emails, I have asked the NHBC to clarify why they are choosing to ignore the wording in standard 9.3.7, where the flooring should be installed to the manufacturers specification - sadly they keep ignoring this item and continue to state they measured to the correct standard, a standard they wont confirm the specification of, apart from +\-5mm and it has to be reasonably level.

When the NHBC measured the floor it was at the maximun +5mm tolerance, which is over the 3mm it should be. The other issue is when measuring they used the high points, but didnt offset these against the low points over the 2M length defined in the standard, making the deviation in level looking to be more than 5mm.

If anyone would like to look at some poor quality pictures of mine, here is my dropbox

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/0fdbjr6u24h4kjq/AAC09j_lHo7AKPYNP4z5U_RHa?dl=0

From Amtico

'The quality and preparation of subfloors, testing for moisture content and relative humidity, and installation procedures must be in accordance with Amtico International technical guidelines and country specific standards (BS 8203 and BS 8204 for UK).'

From CFA

'The British Standard (BS 8203, SR1) and the Amtico instructions stipulate that the floor must not deviate by more than 3mm over a 2 metre span. It is also reasonable to expect the smoothing compound will befree from trowel marks and other irregularities caused by poor installation.'


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Re: Amtico flooring tolerances
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2018, 10:01:50 am »
Firstly and most important - Who is the housebuilder?

The only applicable standard regarding the NHBC warranty will be their own "A consistent approach to finishes"
1.2 S8 states deviation in floor level of 4mm per metre up to 6 metres floor or 25mm maximum out of level above this.  There is also the + or - 5mm per 2 metres you mention.

Given the fact that it has been agreed to do part of the floor, I wonder why given the work and upheaval required, they are arguing about the flooring that is right on the maximum of the NHBC standard 5mm tolerance.

Finally, it is also incumbent on all following trades, to fully inspect the surfaces they are working with and either bring any poor workmanship to the site managers attention and refuse to work on it, or correct defects, in this case by adding latex floor levelling compound.

My opinion is and has always been if it looks right it is and if it is wrong it should be sorted regardless of tolerance. You would by a car that had tolerances like this!


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steveball

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Re: Amtico flooring tolerances
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2018, 10:44:44 pm »
The builder is David Wilson and I am not here to name and shame.

Would it help if I were to save the report to my Dropbox for you to assess?

The reason I mentioned 9.1.5 and 9.3.7 is due to that’s what my floor was being measured against in the session I had with the NHBC.

The bit I don’t get is where they only measured the high points, and it was quite obvious the low points within the same 2M were pretty obvious. I assume thats why the tolerance is set to +/-5mm

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Re: Amtico flooring tolerances
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2018, 06:32:05 am »
It is vital if housebuilders are ever going to be forced to change, that buyers with genuine issues post them online, here and elsewhere, for all time naming and shame builders, especially plc housebuilders and bring the problems faced by homebuyers to government notice.

Never mind Dropbox I've had lots of posts with links to Dropbox that then a few years later don't work. Cut and past the report or take a photo of it and post.

A plus or minus tolerance of 5mm is a total of 10mm.

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steveball

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Re: Amtico flooring tolerances
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2018, 08:49:33 pm »
It is vital if housebuilders are ever going to be forced to change, that buyers with genuine issues post them online, here and elsewhere, for all time naming and shame builders, especially plc housebuilders and bring the problems faced by homebuyers to government notice.

Never mind Dropbox I've had lots of posts with links to Dropbox that then a few years later don't work. Cut and past the report or take a photo of it and post.

A plus or minus tolerance of 5mm is a total of 10mm.


I have attached the report minus my details, we believe that due to there being a foreign object under the flooring, this should be good enough to have the flooring lifted - due to not being clear of debris and what is the rest of the slab like?



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Re: Amtico flooring tolerances
« Reply #5 on: September 06, 2018, 09:04:12 am »
It looks like the NHBC inspector has agreed (or rather couldn't argue) with the floor being out of level and beyond even the generous NHBC tolerances. 20mm is way above 5mm!

However the statement about lifting the Amtico being "disproportionate" to the minor unevenness is a bit silly,  it will be impossible to relay the Amtico to half a room and expect it to match up to the existing which is not lifted.
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steveball

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Re: Amtico flooring tolerances
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2018, 09:29:35 pm »
It looks like the NHBC inspector has agreed (or rather couldn't argue) with the floor being out of level and beyond even the generous NHBC tolerances. 20mm is way above 5mm!

However the statement about lifting the Amtico being "disproportionate" to the minor unevenness is a bit silly,  it will be impossible to relay the Amtico to half a room and expect it to match up to the existing which is not lifted.

I really appreciate your replies - can you advise how I can proceed to get the entire floor fixed? Am I correct in they should be laid to +/- 3mm?


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Re: Amtico flooring tolerances
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2018, 09:43:01 am »
NHBC state: (c) variations in surface level between adjacent wall or floor tiles
1mm for joints less than 6mm wide.
2mm for joints more than 6mm wide.

Not sure for Amtico specifically. But if subfloor is wrong Amtico needs to come up anyway.
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steveball

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Re: Amtico flooring tolerances
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2018, 10:50:42 pm »
NHBC state: (c) variations in surface level between adjacent wall or floor tiles
1mm for joints less than 6mm wide.
2mm for joints more than 6mm wide.

Not sure for Amtico specifically. But if subfloor is wrong Amtico needs to come up anyway.

So we have an update - Davis Wilson discussed the option of us getting our own quotes and deciding if the amount was acceptable, so I agreed all work and materials except the kitchen units would be supplied by me and they supply the units. Anyhow this has now changed to us only sorting the floor and their trades people doing the rest of the work.

What that means is we have to organise our people and theirs to be on site at the correct dates, which is nigh on impossible! Also added into the mix, I asked for a square metre figure of the flooring they are prepared to fix, to which I got about a third off the flooring - not very conclusive if you ask me.

I have advised I want them to complete all works and to understand which tolerance they are working to when fixing the floor... this is about to get interesting.

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Re: Amtico flooring tolerances
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2018, 08:26:25 am »

Quote
What that means is we have to organise our people and theirs to be on site at the correct dates, which is nigh on impossible!

That is what site managers have to do every day!
Some sites have upwards of 13 different trades, around 50-70 individuals working on around 30-40 homes all at different stages of construction. Add to that Health and Safety, customers, sales requests and site external works.

Good luck.
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steveball

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Re: Amtico flooring tolerances
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2018, 11:39:39 am »

Quote
What that means is we have to organise our people and theirs to be on site at the correct dates, which is nigh on impossible!

That is what site managers have to do every day!
Some sites have upwards of 13 different trades, around 50-70 individuals working on around 30-40 homes all at different stages of construction. Add to that Health and Safety, customers, sales requests and site external works.

Good luck.

Agreed, however that’s their job and I have a full time job to hold down at the same time. If only they had built it properly the first time!

It will be interesting to see how they match the level of the floor which is completely uneven.