Glazing question.

[Shiney]

We moved into our Duchy Homes Ltd. house eighteen months ago.  We had 18 triple glazed units replaced due to severe scratches and fingerprints inside one of the pieces of glass.  All units were also affected with a central haze line through the glass visible in bright not necessarily direct sunlight.

The 'stripes' are visible from outside and within the house at certain times.  The glass was manufactured by Glass Systems who's manager attended and confirmed the glass was defective and agreed replacement in better weather.  My wife has MS and taking glass out in winter in our rural location is completely unacceptable.  The manager went on to say the issue was caused by rollers during the production process and was a well known problem which would be corrected by the time better weather arrived.

We later found out that the manager had left Glass Systems (stated reason by another manager was he had cost the company a lot of money).  Another Glass Systems manager attended and withdrew the promised replacement.  The NHBC became involved and their Inspector asked for an independent report on the glass stating we should be provided with a copy of it as well as themselves. 

Duchy Homes chose the Glass and Glazing Federation (GGF) to do this. The GGF reported the issue was due to low e haze and that the glass was acceptable.  The examples shown on the internet relating to low e haze are completely different in appearance to the issue we have with our glass.  We have not been provided with a copy of the report merely one sentence allegedly from it.  Duchy Homes say this is due to two homes being reported on and for data protection.  We have raised this personally with the Inspector concerned and with Duchy Homes and been given the same excuse of data protection.  We naturally wish to see the report to satisfy ourselves completely.  We tried to contact the GGF Inspector directly but with no success.

Anyone else had similar issues or could point us in another direction to have our own survey to get to the bottom of this please.  Thank you in advance for any responses.

[New Home Expert]

This is not something I have come across before, but you should not have to accept this.
Just because a manager that agreed replacement was justified has left the company doesn't not mean they can then refuse. Do you have anything in writing regarding he replacement?

Most accept the ruling of the GGF, however it is funded by the glazing industry and its independence is easily questioned. I would also add theta the GGF state that and scratches must be within a certain area of the window be visible from certain distance away not in sunlight, which bats away most glazing complaints.

I am more impressed with the original explanation as it sounds plausible to me. You could always get your own glazing expert to inspect and write a report, using this for court action if it becomes necessary.

Finally, I find it very suspicious that the are only giving you the odd paragraph from the GGF report even thought hey stated you would have a full copy. Obviously it might be that many others also have the same issue as you and they don't want you getting in touch and having strength in numbers.  Siting Data Protection is no excuse as they can easily redact the names and addresses which would be a breach leaving you with the meaty parts of the report which they promised.

I smell a rat. Time to get the pest controllers in!  Get a solicitor and an independent expert.

[Shiney]

Thank you for your response on this for which we are very grateful.  We intend to take this issue further not least because of the number of affected units but also the cost!

Unfortunately our only mistake was not to get the promised replacement of glass units in writing.  Schoolboy error but in our defence we had like most others on here a lot of works outstanding and going on.  Any trust we had with anyone concerned in the build is long since gone.  We do have an auditable trail of messages between us and the builder Duchy Homes Ltd. referring to the agreed replacement of the 18 units.

Your thoughts on the GGF are the same as ours. 

Not only did the original Manager from Glass Systems offer the same explanation for the issue but so did his senior manager when he visited our property.  We were advised that the whole production of units in the factory would have to be stopped in order to achieve units for us without the defect in them.  Whilst in our home the senior manager offered replacement glass units for our bi-folds only which we rejected stating we wanted all 18 units replaced.  No mention of this offer was made in his subsequent report and all Glass was deemed acceptable.  The NHBC became involved and their Inspector called for an independent report.  Duchy Homes Ltd chose the GGF.

We are very suspicious of the refusal to allow us to read the report.  We have only seen one sentence alleged from the GGF report nothing like a paragraph.  We have it in writing from the NHBC that we must be sent a copy of the report.  We asked about this at a meeting this week with the NHBC Inspector and Duchy Homes Ltd. but were given the same reason i.e. data protection.  We know the neighbour concerned who also has the same problem.  Another neighbour had toughened glass replaced with laminated.  When we pointed out a president had been set Duchy Homes Ltd. stated the replacement had been done without their knowledge and the homeowners warranty and defect procedure was now with the fitting company and the glass manufacturer Glass Systems. We suspect there will be others with the same defect in the 21 homes built.  Having applied for our SAR which was heavily redacted as you mention we believe there must be an ulterior motive.  Interestingly we have it in writing in he SAR that I was 'snagging' neighbours properties.  Untrue.  We have more than enough going on without taking anything else on.

We took legal advice some time ago (Irwin Mitchell) on the whole situation we are in not just the glass problem.  We were advised to exhaust Duchy Homes Ltd. complaints procedure (they didn't reply and have refused to take further snags etc. since 5 August 2019).  We were further advised to exhaust NHBC, FOS and mediation before considering Court action.  We are well into this process now and continuing to build up evidence against Duchy Homes Ltd. including their latest written allegations which are defamatory (false and we can prove it) and made as a response to arbitration on another issue.

We also smell a rat.  Thank you for your advice.  We hope we have put some more meat on the bones!  We will now find an independent expert who can assist and obtain the necessary quotes for replacement.

[New Home Expert]

It shouldn't  be a crime to be too trusting.  The representative was honest and accommodating so anyone would take him at his word. Perhaps you may still have his personal mobile number?

Is Duchy Homes anything to do with Duchy of Cornwall? Have they got permission from Prince Charles to use the name?

Housebuilders cannot pass their responsibility and liability top those who supply and fit material in new homes. Your contract is with Duchy Homes not any of their contractors. If Duchy decide after the fact to chase Duchy for their incurred costs that is a matter for them.

It is of no consequence if you are "snagging other homes" or not. Neighbours will always pass on and share  information about issues with their homes. There is no law against it and it does not diminished your case or new home defects.

Re legal action, do you have legal expenses insurance? Irwin Mitchell will be expensive.
And with Legal Expense insurance, the moment the forecasted success drops below 50% they will drop funding. This could even happen after several months.

Good luck.
Perhaps the New Homes Ombudsman I have campaigned for over five years for may now be set up in time to help you.


They are also right to suggest you go through every possible avenue before taking "last resort" legal action. The court will be more inclined to side with you if you have done so.

[Shiney]

Thank you again for your response.

We only have the manager's company email address and company mobile neither of which are still in use.  We obviously know his name and perhaps we could trace him from that.  We have an idea where he lives County wise from conversations we had when he visited.

Duchy Homes was set we believe by a Leeds millionaire who owns a large construction company.  The person concerned is no longer a director.  There has been a number of comings and goings over the three years we have been taking note of Duchy Homes Ltd.  No connection with the Duchy of Cornwall as far as we know but a good point which we will investigate further!

Since 5 August 2019 Duchy Homes have refused to directly speak to us or answer emails.  They sent a signed for solicitors letter detailing contact had to go through our solicitor to theirs.  We were informed Duchy would not tolerate contact from us.

We have communicated a small number of times ourselves via their solicitor but this is obviously time consuming and responses are delayed. We refused to make contact via our Solicitor due to cost. We considered this a breach of contract.  We went to arbitration on another matter and it was separately decided Duchy were wrong and must speak to us.  Duchy Homes Ltd. responded by writing lies about me in particular but failed to evidence this.  We are considering legal advice regarding defamation as we have these comments in writing coupled with those from the SAR.

We do have legal expenses cover with my previous employer.  We have forwarded copies of all emails to a certain point to them and they are hopefully being retained as it took a couple of days to forward them across!

We hope like yourself and all concerned that the New Home Ombudsman will be set up soon.  While we have been very shabbily treated we are very aware that others in this forum have been affected to a greater degree and in some cases had to vacate their homes.

We will in the meantime continue to press for the property we were promised and paid for.