Soft Mortar Joints In Places

[New Home Expert]

So it should have been 1 : 6 and has been laboratory tested showing it is in reality weaker at 1 : 7 at best. Now we wait I suppose for the manufacturer's "allowable tolerances" so they can wriggle out of it?
Also it is weaker than the NHBC require 1 : 5.5 which is Bellway's fault!

[PSE]

I had an email back from the mortar company saying that their:

"M4 Ready To Use Mortar is a design mix and this is not a volumetric mix produced to prescribed mix proportions. I am afraid therefore that your quoted cement : sand proportions are academic in this respect.
Design mixes are the result of regular routine sampling and testing in accordance with the relevant British and European Standards to ensure a minimum compressive strength performance in laboratory conditions. They are our own recipe, which can be subject to change at any time and are not in any way linked to mix proportions. Our M4 mortar exceeds 4N/mm2 at 28 days when sampled, cured and tested in accordance with the Standards. Naturally fully audited historical test data is on file to this effect."
 
"I am sure that you appreciate that we are not in control of the manner in which our mortar is stored, handled, laid and cured on site. Site practice and conditions have a significant effect on the eventual performance and durability of the product. If your mortar is "soft" I would respectfully suggest that you consider factors such as the ambient temperature and prevailing conditions at the time of the build and throughout the subsequent period of curing and strength gain. You should also consider the moisture level of the substrate, the level of protection provided and the nature of any brick cleaning that may have been carried out."

However if you look at http://www.marshalls.co.uk/dam-svc/AssetStore/Premier-Mortars-360.pdf it says 1:6.


This is all getting very confusing?? 
 

[New Home Expert]

I think they are anticipating getting the blame and have their standard "get out of jail free card" of excuses/explanations as to why its someone else's fault.

To be sure, they will "find" a sample or record dated and tested that would coincide with the delivery batch.  This is how its done. When cubes for testing are taken, they make a couple of spares. These are number coded and stored and cured to achieve absolute maximum possible strength. If ever, on any site, a mortar or concrete is found to be under strength, they have "spares" available for a re-test.

It is true they "do not control the manner in which the mortar is used" as they describe are all very possible and viable ways that mortar could be weakened. Perhaps, although I am not certain how a compression test could now be carried out on your mortar, this is what would be needed to prove it is under strength. Even then,  the "manner" excuses/explanations still hold.

I believe that you should have 4n/mm2 mortar achieved by using a 1 :5.5 cement : sand mix.
This is what is required, specified and sold to you - a home built to NHBC Standards.
Perhaps the NHBC can get an expert witness who can predict from the mix proportions in the samples tested, that 4n/mm2 can never be achieved. This would then have nothing to do with any their "manner" explanations.

The important issue is that the NHBC and/or Bellway agree and undertake to take down the brickwork and re build in the correct strength/mix mortar.  But, as winter approaches, perhaps the re build should be postponed until April-May next year, to minimise the disruption to you.

NHBC/Bellway may wish after the rebuild to start legal proceedings with Marshalls to recover some/all of the costs involved.

[PSE]

Thank you again for your reply and advice   .

I think the thing that was confusing me was their reply stating the ratio tests were academic as their mortar is not a volumetric mix. 

I'm so glad at this stage that we had the Legal Cover on our house insurance when we purchased the property.

[New Home Expert]

Regarding  Legal Expenses cover, it's worth having for £24 extra a year.
But, and here's the rub, even if they accept to take your claim on, at all times during the legal action, they (not you) must believe they have a greater than 50% chance of winning the case.
The moment they think it is less than 50% they will stop paying the legal costs.

Until the NHBC refuse the claim, that will be your best and easiest option for a remedy, or at least until a New Homes Ombudsman is finally set up.

[PSE]

Thank you for your reply and I was typing this when you replied.

I suppose the other annoying thing is that I first notified the builder regarding the soft mortar on 15th September 2015.  The builder viewed it in October and said it was frost damage, and it was agreed to wait until the spring 2016 to get it done.  However the more I looked at it the more I did not like it especially with the large black particles that were evident in a few places.  The builder then sent a Marshalls Premier Mortar representative to view the mortar and the black particles and they stated that the mortar was fine even though you could scratch the surface away with your fingernail in some places they said it is made to a compressive strength and they said the black particles were a coal like substance.

In May this year the builder sent their contracting company who specialise in brick tinting to rectify the supposed frost damaged mortar over about two weeks but when I cleaned the windows upstairs there was still soft mortar evident after they had informed me they had checked it all before they had finished.  Obviously they were just told to bodge it to make it look ok from ground level.

Here we are in September 2016 and still not sure what action the builder proposes to take and i think this will drag on for several months??

[PSE]

I know you are involved in the campaigning for the New Home Ombudsman and have done a brilliant job.  When do you think this will actually happen??

Thank you once again for your help and advice.

[New Home Expert]

Therein lies the $64m question.
I have contacted all 650 MP's since the report was published on 13 July 2016.
I have e mailed several MP's since when buyers have contacted me with problems that their housebuilder isn't doing anything at all about - some quite shocking.
In total just SEVEN have replied saying they will support the setting up by the DCLG of a new Homes Ombudsman.
The APPG chair Oliver Colvile MP (for Plymouth) said in the report he is "positively passionate about this issue" but as far as I am aware, has done nothing at all since the report was published.

I have written to my media contacts asking for them to write a story or mention it on the main news. So far nothing!

Today, I have started a Petition to Parliament.
It will need 10,000 people to sign it before it even gets a response and 150,000 signing before it is debated. This in six months.
Here is the link and I urge everyone to sign it, even if you don't own a new home. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/167660
I've posted it everywhere but it will need 100,000 people to actually sign it for a debate in Parliament. Sadly I feel most can't be bothered!

So in answer to your question, as it stands, buyers like you will be able to use a New Homes Ombudsman Service anytime between a week and sometime never! 
Only people power will change this, I am only one person.

[PSE]

Just an update and a question.

In the NHBC Resolution Report it stated:

"The mortar for the build was a pre-mixed mortar therefore I suspect that the areas that are soft or exhibiting signs of erosion may have suffered some frost damage during curing.
In order to determine mix ratio’s mortar testing should be carried out."

The builder and myself have both had separate testing done.  The results all state that the cement:sand ratio ranges from 1:7 at best to 1:9 at worst.

The mortar company claim that the mortar is a design mix so the mortar is produced to a compression strength of 4n/mm2 when fully cured after 28 days in lab conditions.  They also claim the mortar is not produced to mix ratios so the testing that the builder and myself had done is academic. They claim that when it left the factory it would be fully tested to produce the compressive strength stated, however they are not responsible for what happens to the Mortar when it leaves the factory (how it's stored, altered, used, cleaned etc).

Bellway are saying the same as the mortar company now except in their email to me they obviously erased the part about what happens to the Mortar when it leaves the factory.

The testing has been done to the NHBC report (at a cost to me of £360) but the mortar company are refusing to acknowledge this.  If the testing is "Academic" in this case could I claim the £360 back from the NHBC as their information was wrong?

Also I've asked the mortar company if there's any test that can be done now to test the mortar for compressive strength in situ but they claim not??

A crazy situation if this is true as I can't believe that they've never sent out poor mortar but if so no one could prove it?

Thank you in advance for any advice or information.

[New Home Expert]

The actions of all three responsible is quite frankly diabolical and irresponsible.
I expect it would be quite different if it was a single house development!

If as you say parts of e mails to you have been edited, I suggest you make a Subject Access Request to the NHBC, Mortar Company and Bellway and check what you get sent by them in the 40 days they are permitted to comply.  It will cost you £10 for each SAR but it may be well worth it.

Obviously there is a way to test compressive strength of mortar in a built wall.
Sections of wall could be cut out and tested. Small sections of mortar cold be tested.
Above all else, the mix proportions that determine the compressive strength so it is ridiculous for thr Marshalls to claim that their mortar is not batched in specific mix ratios!

I suggest you send what you have to the NHBC and tell them to sort this out. It is the NHBC that warranty the structural integrity of your home.

I can assure you that this is happening all over the country with most of the major housebuilders and all of them and the NHBC fight any claim that would result in re building the brickwork on a whole estate.
Here's another from 2011! Same situation as you.
It also happened on a site in Angmering West Sussex in 2002/3. Taylor Woodrow trading as Bryant built it and every house on that site had the brickwork taken down and re built. I know because the foreman bricklayer who was overseeing the works (which took two years) worked on my site at the time as well.

Don't worry about the £360 for the testing. You can claim that back after the works are done as compensation will  also be due to you.  The important issue is to get the brickwork rebuilt. What then your neighbour's do is up to them. You will have to sign a gagging order though so the media never get hold of it (at least from you that is!)

[PSE]

Thank you for your reply and advice.

To be fair I contacted Marshalls head office and never gave any information except my name and email address and as far as I know the Bellway was unaware I was in contact with them.  The answer I got was virtually word for word what the Bellway also sent me except mine had some of the reasons after the mortar had left the factory and the builder's version didn't and they would never send me that anyway. 

I spoke to the NHBC today to the person in claims dealing with my issues.  They stated that they had an email from the Claims Investigator and the email had said Bellway to address the mortar to reach their Technical Standards. 

I asked the question what would that then be?  They started to say about having it all pointed up but I stopped them and stated I would find that hard to believe that just repointing would reach their Technical Standards.  I stated that the mortar in some areas is only about 50% of the strength that it should be, I then asked about the Load Bearing Walls as they would be built from the same mortar.  Obviously they were not technically minded so they will firstly go to the builder to ask them what they proposed to do and then go back to the Claims Investigator.

I also asked the question about when I insure my house next year and the question is asked "is your property structurally sound" and I have to tell them that I'm not sure as the mortar it was built from was not to the required standard.  I said there will then be 1001 other questions and then I will get told that unfortunately they will be unable to insure my house based on what I had told them.   

[PSE]

Just to update you.

I spoke to Bellway today for any update and they stated they were still waiting for guidance from the NHBC.  They also stated that the Construction Director had emailed a Director at the NHBC regarding this. 

I then spoke to the Claims Handler at the NHBC and they stated that they'd had a meeting with their Supervisor yesterday also regarding this.  They are now going to get the Claims Investigator to write up a plan of action to give to Bellway and myself to bring it up to the NHBC Technical Standards.

Mmm I smell a rat here I think??

[New Home Expert]

First of all don't tell any insurers.
How are you to know your home has weak mortar? Its not a question I have ever come across when insuring my home either. Subsidence maybe, flooding maybe. But how would Joe public know if their home was structurally sound?  Even the NHBC seem to be having a problem understanding this.

As I said earlier, they will all collude and the course of action will be to rake out the joints to a depth of 25mm and re point with stronger mortar. This is the easiest and cheapest but is not s structurally solution for under strength weak mortar. The ties could well be useless and as you say internal loadbearing walls could be affected. This being the case, I think you might have to consider asking Bellway/NHBC buy your house off you so you can walk away.

Once you have got the "proposal"  tell the NHBC you will go to the press and write to your MP if the claim is not dealt with properly and professionally.

[PSE]

Thank you for your reply and advice.

I thought that was a question that was asked though when you insure a house but it must be me who's got it wrong.

I'll wait for the proposal to see what the plan of action is but I guess you've already got a good idea what the answer what it will be.

Thank you once again

[PSE]

Just a quick update.

I think the colluding has started! 

I tried to contact my Claims Handler at the NHBC yesterday but did not get an answer by telephone.  I selected to be put through to Claims and spoke to someone else. 
I asked if there was any update yet to my claim as when I spoke to my Claims Handler the other day they were waiting for a reply from the Claims Investigator.  The person checked my file and said yes there was an update and it was from the Claims Investigator however they advised me it was best if my Claims Handler calls me back. 
After about an hour I called my Claims Handler again and I stated that I had been advised by their colleague that there was an update from the Claims Investigator on my file.  They replied that unfortunately the Claims Investigator had sent a reply but for a completely different claim that had a very similar number to mine!  They then informed me that the builder's director had contacted a director at the NHBC regarding this and it had been passed down to the area manager to look at. They also stated that the builder is claiming that the mortar is to a compressive strength (4n/mm2) and not therefore to a mix ratio.

What also annoys me is Bellway had already stated in an email (I think?) that they will do whatever the outcome of the claim with the NHBC but obviously as it did not look like it was going in their favour the Construction Director has got involved with a director at the NHBC.

I think I may have to give the Daily Telegraph a call regarding this and the way it's going!