New Home Owners And Snagging Forum

Advice on buying a brand new home => Snagging and defects => Topic started by: billinghamn on May 19, 2020, 10:05:34 am

Title: Missing Window Detailing
Post by: billinghamn on May 19, 2020, 10:05:34 am
New to this forum, so any help from more experienced users would be very much appreciated.

Not long since we moved into a new home and we have noticed that the brick detailing above and below the windows at the rear of our property have not been installed correctly.  The lightweight brick header above one window is in place, but it is missing from two other windows.  The lightweight brick sill is missing from all three windows.

This seems like a complete mess up, which the builder should have picked up as part of quality control.  The builder is suggesting it's just cosmetic and they won't fix it.

Any advice as to what my rights are?  I'm pushing the builder into retrofitting the detailing, although I have no knowledge as to whether this is possible or not.
Title: Re: Missing Window Detailing
Post by: billinghamn on May 19, 2020, 01:07:43 pm
I've also now checked the approved planning application, and there are a number of houses on the development whose elevations do not match the elevation drawings approved as part of the planning application.  I.e. there are a number of houses where the brick detailing doesn't match the detailing that should have been installed.
Title: Re: Missing Window Detailing
Post by: Midwest on May 23, 2020, 08:29:46 am
Got any pictures you can post?
Title: Re: Missing Window Detailing
Post by: New Home Expert on May 23, 2020, 10:59:29 am
First of all, you bought the house and should have been shown, drawings, elevations, specifications and there would have been a brochure. Presumably all of this would have shown what your own home would look like.

What you now have appears to be a hotch-potch of neither detailing or no detailing at all. The housebuilder is wrong to suggest it is just cosmetic and refuse to put it right.
With construction there is absolutely nothing at all that cannot be re done. At the extreme, a house can be demolished and rebuilt if that is what is right and required.

It is only lazy and indifferent housebuilder that try to suggest nothing can be done purely because it would be too expensive and/or time consuming to carry out and for no other reason.

Name the housebuilder and a photo or two would be useful.
Title: Re: Missing Window Detailing
Post by: New Home Expert on May 23, 2020, 11:01:54 am
I've also now checked the approved planning application, and there are a number of houses on the development whose elevations do not match the elevation drawings approved as part of the planning application.  I.e. there are a number of houses where the brick detailing doesn't match the detailing that should have been installed.

You could suggest to the housebuilder you are of a mind to inform the council that many of the homes constructed are in breach of the approved planning application drawings, should they continue to refuse to rectify your home!
Title: Re: Missing Window Detailing
Post by: billinghamn on May 24, 2020, 12:35:58 pm
Many thanks for your replies New Home Expert!  Very much appreciated.

The home builder is Bloor Homes, and the site is in Drayton, just south of Abingdon in Oxfordshire.

First image is of the front of the house, which has the brick header and sill on each window.  The upper windows do not have the brick header due to the fascia tiles and closeness of the roof.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49929151268_f361707f5e_c.jpg)

Second image is of the rear of the house, which should have similar window detailing.  You should be able to see that the only detailing included is the brick header on the upper window on the right hand side.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49929151408_2398926ceb_c.jpg)

I've asked Bloor to escalate the issue and I am waiting for a response.
Title: Re: Missing Window Detailing
Post by: Midwest on May 25, 2020, 08:13:39 am
What house style do you have, is it the Bulberry? I see from the pictures on their website of plot 134, it does show that brick detailing above the main windows (i.e. missing from yours).

I was shown elevation plans etc, when I made my deposit, was even told what style roofing type I would have. If I recall I had to sign those docs, and I kept copies. Do you have access to these documents?

I'll check my documentation, to see if there's any reference to changes in minor designs etc. I wonder if there's scope for them with that, in the signed agreement?

Title: Re: Missing Window Detailing
Post by: Midwest on May 25, 2020, 12:44:13 pm
I couldn't find any documentary proof, that I had signed for and given plans, specifically elevation plans. However, I found a brochure given to me by Bloor, 'Consumer Code for Builders'. The document refers to Consumer Code applying to reservations after 1st April 2017, there were previous editions from 2010. It sets out mandatory Requirements that all Home Builders must meet in marketing, selling of their Homes and after sales customer service.

Reading through it, there's a section on pre purchase information, specifically if a home is not complete; brochure or plan illustrating the general layout, appearance and plot position of the home. And some other information. That would be the elevation plans I spoke previously.

If the elevations, your brick detailing, has changed from the original build, that might be a starting point for you. Unless of course they have an opt out clause for small cosmetic changes?
Title: Re: Missing Window Detailing
Post by: billinghamn on May 26, 2020, 07:47:00 am
Thanks Midwest!  Yes it's a Bolberry - Plot 136.  We know the owners of Plot 134 (that's also a Bolberry, as you have indicated).  Their window detailing is all as per approved plans.  I'll have to check through the documentation that Bloor provided to us, but if there was anything that suggested they could change the cosmetic look and feel of the house, there's no way we would have signed up.

I have asked Bloor to escalate the issue and for them to respond back to me, so I'll see what they say next.

Have you moved into the Dovecote now?  Great place to live - shame about some of the building issues we are now uncovering!
Title: Re: Missing Window Detailing
Post by: New Home Expert on May 26, 2020, 10:10:09 am
First thing to mention here is the Consumer Code for Home Builders is not mandatory.
Housebuilders can and most do breach the CCHB requirements regularly, with a degree of impunity as this is not independent and payments to buyers for builder's repeated breaches historically, have been a disgrace.  I appreciate that the CCHB website does not say this!

All of which is why I have been campaigning for 6 years for government to set up a statutory New Homes Ombudsman which it announced on 1st October 2018 which is now in the most recent Queen's speech.

With regards to the brick detailing to the windows.
The front elevation is perfectly correct and acceptable.
The rear elevation is clearly a mistake and either all of the windows should have had the soldier arch above or it could have been omitted (as a cost saving).
The header course under the windows should have been included too.

Bloor Homes should add soldier courses to the ground floor windows and header courses under the windows.  Bloor Homes cannot change detailing on one house of the same type so it is different from other homes on the same estate. A mistake which can and should be rectified.
Bloor Homes are poor at dealing with complaints and I expect you will have a battle over this.

I would add that the quality of the bricklaying also leaves a lot to be desired. For example, left hand side of top right window.
Title: Re: Missing Window Detailing
Post by: Midwest on May 30, 2020, 12:11:51 pm
Thanks Midwest!  Yes it's a Bolberry - Plot 136.  We know the owners of Plot 134 (that's also a Bolberry, as you have indicated).  Their window detailing is all as per approved plans.  I'll have to check through the documentation that Bloor provided to us, but if there was anything that suggested they could change the cosmetic look and feel of the house, there's no way we would have signed up.

I have asked Bloor to escalate the issue and for them to respond back to me, so I'll see what they say next.

Have you moved into the Dovecote now?  Great place to live - shame about some of the building issues we are now uncovering!

No, we moved onto a site in West Oxfordshire, although I do know other people have moved onto your site. Did you have elevation plans? My show those sorts of details.

Although I have not had any major errors like yourself, I have been impressed by the way Bloor have responded to snags on my property. Hope you'll find the same. I can only speak as I find.
Title: Re: Missing Window Detailing
Post by: billinghamn on May 30, 2020, 02:17:14 pm
No, we moved onto a site in West Oxfordshire, although I do know other people have moved onto your site. Did you have elevation plans? My show those sorts of details.

Although I have not had any major errors like yourself, I have been impressed by the way Bloor have responded to snags on my property. Hope you'll find the same. I can only speak as I find.

To be fair to Bloor, we have been pretty happy with the way that they have dealt with our snags.  Still got our 6 month snagging list to complete (delayed due to Covid-19), but there are times when Bloor dig their heels in and refuse to play ball.  Eventually they relent, but it takes time and effort.  It would be a much improved customer experience if they just jumped to the point when they agree with their customers!

We are going to seek out legal advice, on whether we can claim that the missing brick detailing has an impact on value or marketability of our property.  Looks like this is our best course of action on the basis that the seller (developer) has a right to change the construction without advising the purchaser (us) unless any change has a significant impact on one of those two attributes.  This is a clause in the sales contract.

If anyone has any good legal contacts that might be helpful, I'd appreciate any recommendations.
Title: Re: Missing Window Detailing
Post by: Midwest on May 31, 2020, 06:21:13 am
My wife has reminded me about the instance with a neighbour. Before they moved in, they saw their boundary had been completed using a wooden fence. When their had signed etc, they were told it would be a block wall, the same as the house. They complained, and the wooden fence was removed, and block wall installed. Also, as they and immediate neighbours are on a different level, they changed the detail of the combination of the wall and fence, so their neighbour wasn't looking into their garden when parking his car. 

If I recall, they took their complaint higher up, not with just site & sales etc.
Title: Re: Missing Window Detailing
Post by: billinghamn on May 31, 2020, 02:07:06 pm
My wife has reminded me about the instance with a neighbour. Before they moved in, they saw their boundary had been completed using a wooden fence. When their had signed etc, they were told it would be a block wall, the same as the house. They complained, and the wooden fence was removed, and block wall installed. Also, as they and immediate neighbours are on a different level, they changed the detail of the combination of the wall and fence, so their neighbour wasn't looking into their garden when parking his car. 

If I recall, they took their complaint higher up, not with just site & sales etc.

Thanks Midwest - that's useful to know.

I've escalated to the Regional team, and will be emailing the CEO of Bloor Homes next.  No harm in aiming high!
Title: Re: Missing Window Detailing
Post by: Midwest on May 31, 2020, 07:50:52 pm
Good luck. Despite of what you read on here, most businesses want to remain fluid. There's no press like bad press.
Title: Re: Missing Window Detailing
Post by: billinghamn on July 23, 2020, 10:53:02 am
Quick update:

Through Bloor's official complaints process, the Head of Customer Care has offered to rectify the header detailing but not the window sills.  At least this would mean that all the windows are consistent, although not complete, not compliant with the approved plans.

It's a start.  I'm pushing back asserting my desire that they address all aspects of their non-compliance with the approved plans.

They included an internal elevation plan (apparently for our house) that shows the rear without the window detailing - where that might have come from I have no idea.  They also argued that at the point that we reserved, the house walls had already been constructed.  I highlight in my response that we were given no opportunity to inspect the rear of the property, and at the Inspection we specifically asked the Bloor Homes reps as to whether there had been any changes to the approved plans. 
The answer we received was No.

Will see where the next round of discussions go.  Likely will move to Stage 3 in the complaints process and thus I'll be having a discussion with the Regional Managing Director.

Thanks to everyone for listening and for offering advice.
Title: Re: Missing Window Detailing
Post by: New Home Expert on July 23, 2020, 12:27:11 pm
New homes, unless stock homes or a show home are a work in progress. It is ridiculous to claim that as the brickwork was built you could have and should have queried it at the time of reservation.  Factor in that these days most housebuilders actively forbid buyers to check their homes as they are built, often citing "health and safety" as the reason.

Most strange is the cills would be the easiest to change.
Why on earth do housebuilders such as Bloor Homes continue to make it as difficult as possible for their customers to actually get the home they paid for I just don't know.

Title: Re: Missing Window Detailing
Post by: billinghamn on August 04, 2020, 01:52:05 pm
We are well into the formal Complaints process now.  Initial response from the Head of Customer Care included a "working elevation drawing" which shows no detailing on any window at the rear.  They offered to "make the window headers consistent", which we read as them offering to install the 2 missing window headers. However, in a subsequent escalation of the complaint, the Regional Managing Director clarified this offer as being the removal of the window header that was incorrectly installed.  They have accepted that a mistake was made, but the mistake they accept is that the one window header that had been installed, should not have been installed.

The crux of this complaint is this:

The fact that the "working drawings" are not consistent with any other house of the same type on the development highlights the bizarre Bloor argument that the rear window detailing was never supposed to be installed on our house.  There is no rhyme or reason for this, other than the suggestion that the developer deliberately changed the working drawings when they realised the mistake the brickies had made.  It's a cheaper fix to remove one window header than to add in 6 new ones, and that's only if the homeowner notices!

We are in the final stage of the complaints process.  I am waiting for a response from the Divisional Chairman.  I suspect they will continue to hide behind a blatant attempt at misleading us during the sales process, and no doubt we will end up taking legal action.
Title: Re: Missing Window Detailing
Post by: New Home Expert on August 05, 2020, 12:05:13 pm
The trouble is Bloor Homes will probably be able to provide proof that you signed as seeing the pertinent elevation drawing. It should have a drawing number and any revision listed on the form.
You should ask for a copy of this.
If there is no signed form it is your word against theirs.
No doubt they will be able to produce am elevation drawing showing what they need for any court hearing.

You could try using the Consumer Code for Home Builders. I rate your chances of success around 25% as it is controlled to protect the industry. nevertheless it is Free to lodge a complaint and will result in Bloor wasting their time answering the complaint. The CCHB could rule that Bloor Homes have to change the headers as you want.

But everyone should ask themselves why all of this is necessary as it seems clear cut, it would have cost very little to keep their customer happy. Bloor Homes don't care about this and now others should think twice (taking no notice of any 5 star rating) before making up their mind and signing to buy one of their homes!
Title: Re: Missing Window Detailing
Post by: Midwest on August 09, 2020, 04:43:09 pm

The crux of this complaint is this:
  • At the time we purchased the house, the house had already been built (and therefore the error was already present).  We were not allowed to view the rear of the house during this process - it was still a building site, and we were lucky to be allowed to see the front, sides and the inside!
  • During the sales process, Bloor suggest that they showed us the working designs (including the "working rear elevation drawing" showing the windows without the detailing.  At that time they suggest we reviewed these and signed them off.
  • During the sales process, Bloor were explicit in not allowing us to take copies of any drawings, nor take our own photos of drawings.  It is now clear why we didn't get any copies - it's a way for Bloor to reduce the possibility of anomalies being highlighted after homeowners move in.  No drawings = no evidence.

The fact that the "working drawings" are not consistent with any other house of the same type on the development highlights the bizarre Bloor argument that the rear window detailing was never supposed to be installed on our house.  There is no rhyme or reason for this, other than the suggestion that the developer deliberately changed the working drawings when they realised the mistake the brickies had made.  It's a cheaper fix to remove one window header than to add in 6 new ones, and that's only if the homeowner notices!


I've checked back through my documentation. I've found the 'Reservation Checklist'. On that checklist, it shows we signed for & were given floor plans & elevation plans. I have the plans in front of me now. I do recall, I can't remember why, we weren't given 'Legal Layout plans & Landscaping plans', but I took pictures.

We were allowed on site during its build to view the rear, my wife wanted to see the size of rear garden and how we were overlooked by neighbours. We had to wear appropriate PPE, accompanied by sales & site agent, on an arrange day.

On our development, the brickwork is reconstructive stone. Most not all of the houses front windows, have stone headers & sills. This is reflected in my elevation plans. None of the houses have such on the rear windows.
As said before, my neighbour got some real changes done to his boundaries, after they had moved in.

@billinghamn I would keep pushing, and keep going higher up if you don't get satisfaction.