New Home Owners And Snagging Forum
Advice on buying a brand new home => Snagging and defects => Topic started by: Mr+MrsSadAvant on January 01, 2017, 02:08:38 pm
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Hi Forum
We recently purchased a new Avant home, well you probably already know we are now facing huge issues. Firstly the toilets are wall hanging and they moved and the walls/tiles cracked. Avant came to repair these but when they took off the tiles it was clear to be seen that the remaining tiles had only being fixed using the dot and Dab method. I have had meetings about this poor workmanship but Avant now want to just repair a couple of bad bits and offer me a 10-year guarantee on the rest of the tilling. Should I get them to put it right? Listed below is other issues which I could do with some help on:
Floors moving upstairs and creaking all over. when we walk across a bedroom floor the bedside cabinet wobbles?
We have just noticed on the kitchen ceiling there are round bits of plaster popping out of the ceiling. this is I believe nails moving in the plasterboard. Should they have been screwed?
Below is my snagging list which needs updating but it is growing and we are 5 months in and still no solutions, also you will see some of my comments where they have already had one go at fixing it. Should I now be asking for compensation?
- Kitchen Bi-fold doors 2nd glazed panel needs replacing
- Bi Fold doors Rusty locking strip
- Bi Fold doors lose and rattling in wind, now not closing very well
- Scratch to glazed panel to front LHS window (Office room)
- Dot and Dab Tilling. Issues 5 to 12 can be done when this is rectified
- Replace the tile behind the tap controls in the Main bathroom as cut short Also the tile that is fitted is slowly cracking around it and it can be pushed back again no grout behind it!!!!. Also check that the taps do not need lifting up?
- The bath plug is fitted with the seal hanging out!
- The bath water is far too cold for a bath, take panel off and adjust, do not do this by turning the boiler up!
- Take the vanity unit off and realign to make sure the water falls in the centre of the sink in the main bathroom. They will need to do this when they do the tiles and take the panel off for the plug on the bath and adjusting the temperature.
- Master bedroom en-suite. Replace tile at the back of the Vanity unit as it is chipped.
- Shower in master bedroom en-suite cuts out intermittently
- Manufacturing defect in the shower tray to en-suite 2 – Please replace. Plumber says it level, but why does the water run to the opposite side of the drain? Now agreed it is not level after manufacturer came and viewed it!
- Auxiliary shower head in second en-suite lose
- Creaky floor boards in bed 2 near the doorway – Use Spax screws, Some completed Still some outstanding, Also stairs at bottom and near top moving and creaking. Cracks forming!
- Porch pillar mortar cracked.
- Chips and damage to front door internally and externally. Also below rain splash guard
- Stone window sills external cracked mortar. Also crack appearing above Kitchen window!
- Fence boards are split to the rear fence (near the rose)
- Please install drains in the walls above the finished soil level of the lower tier.
- Ground sinking in front of left hand garage door.
- Dividing fence between plot 19 and 18 at the split level section. should follow walls not hang in mid-air. also tidy poor finishing off ie capping’s Just some capping to tidy up as the rest looks fine but the capping looks a mess!!
- Kitchen Drawer below oven needs a new drawer front.
- Holes in mortar at front of house where the signs have been removed, also a screw left sticking out, screw needs removing and the holes need filling!
- Front door is missing the locking plates that capture the locks from the door into the frame. And is very loose.
- Living room patio door is all scratched and does not fit or close right. Also there are locking bits that have been fitted over sticking out screws and it does not look that safe either.
- Back garden still to complete
- Main Bathroom door swelling and splitting. Please change.
- Auxiliary shower head in second en-suite lose
- Patio Sagging in middle and forming a puddle when raining?
- Front outside light cannot be adjusted, some prat has had a big screwdriver in it!! Needs changing.
- All 3 off bathroom vanity units now are showing signs of swelling on the tops. One of the bathrooms has hardly been used!!!
- Toilet in the main bathroom has a cracked tile below it Dot and Dab Tilling again!!!!
- Main bedroom floor moving, again do they know what fixings are?
Thanks for reading any advice totally welcomed?
Mr + Mrs
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Not sure why a wall tiler would 'dot & dab' adhesive for wall tiles. It is easier to use a special adhesive applicator trowel. All I can think of is the walls are so far out he needed a thicker adhesive to get then straight!
There is no guarantee with a new home! There may be a warranty but it won't cover wall tiling after the first two years. Avant are fobbing you off.
Creaking floors. see this post.
http://forum.brand-newhomes.co.uk/snagging-and-defects/nhbc-standards-for-chipboard-floors-on-i-joists/msg2801/#msg2801
However, I suspect the issue (as your floor bounce) is the spans are too big for the joists.
Either the design is incorrect or the manufacturer's instructions/warranty standards have not been followed.
You should make a claim under the warranty as Avant won't be inclined to sort this out as it will involve you moving out for a few weeks (perhaps months) and would be very expensive for Avant.
The screw pops ('nail pops' is a term used) are caused when the plasterboard stays and the joist and screw move down. I would be very surprised if they used nails! Then again it is Avant!
My advice would be to get your home professionally snagged and inspected.
I suggest Tim Fee 07768 900200
Send the list recorded delivery to Avant and say in your covering letter they have 7 days to respond with details of when and how they propose to rectify all the defects.
If they refuse go to the warranty provider.
I take it you have already signed this petition!
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/167660
For a New Homes Ombudsman that would be of particular help for you, if one was available.
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Hi New Home Expert
Thanks for the reply, we are after speaking with Tim going to have a snagging inspection to see his findings and I am sure our list will grow. I will keep you informed of our progress. Hopefully this will send a message to Avant Homes that we are not prepared to let them give us any old rubbish.
Mr and Mrs
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I expect Tim will find a great deal more and you should prepare yourselves for the worst.
I think the Warranty provider will be your best bet to get your new home up to a required standards.
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I expect Tim will find a great deal more and you should prepare yourselves for the worst.
I think the Warranty provider will be your best bet to get your new home up to a required standards.
I take it our warranty provider will be the NHBC?
Thanks
Mr
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The NHBC state that they provide warrantees for 80% of new homes built each year.
But...... some of the worst builders may either be de registered or find the policy premium rating is very high to reflect the risk of a claim.
Your solicitor should have provided you with the warranty policy.
Without the policy number you will not be able to make a claim.
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I had read something a bit different here, as I thought it may be something different.
I can confirm that we have the full NHBC Waranty. I have already spoken with them and sent them pictures highlighting the Dot and Dab tilling.
Since booking in our snagging inspection I have informed the builder of our intentions.
They have responded that they are happy to have this as there will be one list produced with all the issues on and that they will fix any issues.
Well time will tell as I am sure once they get the full list the squirming will start.
But from my first Email to the Board of Directors after I was getting nowhere with the site team or the customer care. They have all sung the same song, who knows are Avant trying to turn a corner?
We now have a new customer care manager who states all issues will be put right.
Once the snagging inspection has been done I will be sending them the report with the issues and giving them 7 Days to respond.
Mr
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I hope you have the confirmation of doing all the snagging in writing rom Avant.
Be aware that the new Customer Care manager will be wanting to make a good impression in his first few weeks with a new employer. The sheer level of customer discontent may well grind him down in the months to come!
I for one would be very surprised if Avant ever "turn the corner" but if they are being more customer focused towards you, it's a good place to start.
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Well the latest is after I told them about getting the house snagged.
Their director has come back and said that he wishes to have one of his surveyors to be with our guy at the same time and agree/ debate and agree if the work should be done.
This could be fun but he has said he wants one list and to get it all sorted asap?
I now need to speak with Tim and see if he will agree to this. What are your thoughts on his suggestion?
Thanks
Mr
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There is absolutely no reason for anyone from Avant to be there when Tim does the snagging inspection.
Quite frankly, if Avant's employees had done their job properly in the first place this inspection would not be necessary. Avant will be bringing nothing to the party and will only be there as a distraction to Tim and to argue against everything he notes that would be expensive or time-consuming to remedy.
Perhaps you could suggest that as Tim will be in effect, training his staff, Avant should pay the cost of your snagging inspection? See how that sits with them!
Finally a house builder's "surveyor" is not the building condition "surveyor" you are thinking!
They just measure the work done and sort out the payments to contractors and do budgets and reports for the directors. They are in effect little more than bean counters anyway, they know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
I expect Avant would want a Contracts Manager there.
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Hi New Home Expert
Well after speaking with Tim today he also agreed that someone there is generally to distract and it does not let him do his job properly. So we have agreed that Tim will do the snagging then stay back for the builder to turn up with his so called surveyor and also the Director and company customer care manager, Hopefully they will agree and we can move forward. Tim has done this before and he says it has worked. Oh well roll on the 20th and we will see where we go next?
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I note they are seeking safety in numbers!
Don't let them bully you.
Good luck.
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Don't worry I won't be bullied.
Please see email correspondence below how they are trying to get at my surveyor!
And what I have said to them
Mr&Mrs: I have had a lot of time to do some research over the Christmas break and from comments made at our last meeting, I have decided that **** ******* was possibly right about me being an engineer and possibly looking at this building/defects too much. This as discussed could be causing me to have an eye winch is a little demanding. So with this in mind I am now seeking the help of a professional snagging inspector. This will hopefully get a comprehensive list of the issues which need attention but also the above details that I may see as an issue, may after all not be one.
The guy I am going to use is a chartered Building Surveyor who has 35 years’ experience in the building industry. I trust you will fully accept his findings and then apply a plan to correct all of his findings. This is going to be at a large cost to me but I feel I must seek this advice from the comments made by **** at our last meeting. I am however finding more issues and these will be looked at by the surveyor which again will make sure that I am not being overly "picky".
The survey will be taking place on the 20th January 2016. I will send you a copy as soon as I get the official report, can you please supply a postal address for this? I will then give you 7 days from receipt to write back to me with your proposed plan of action.
Avant: Further to your below email, to try and assist with all this, as I am conscious time is dragging on, I have had a think about how to move things along more swiftly. I therefore propose that we appoint a surveyor ourselves to attend with your surveyor so they can agree then and there common items or debate/agree/disagree any queries then and there rather than wait for a report to be issued, considered and potentially challenged if there is a difference in professional opinion.
Ultimately your surveyor is of course entitled to record whatever he wishes in his report, which we will respect, but in my experience this could potentially save a lot of time and things going backwards and forwards, as the two surveyors will deal with matters professionally and in a considered manner relative to NHBC/Building Regulations and Standards with no axe to grind so to speak.
If you can confirm this is acceptable to you and you can confirm the time and date of attendance I will put this in place.
Mr&Mrs: Many thanks for coming back to me with positive thoughts. I have spoken with my surveyor and he has come back with a suggestion that I feel will best suit us all. He has suggested that he first completes his inspection by himself, once completed he is willing to meet with yourself and your representative and agree /disagree the findings. I believe this will be a better way as he will be able to do a full unhindered inspection.
Obviously we can then all sit down and agree a way forward. He is doing his inspection on Friday the 20th of January. Myself and the surveyor will be available from 2.30pm onwards to discuss the findings and hopefully agree the corrective actions and start to put this to bed. I trust this is acceptable from your side?
Regards
Avant: Yes that makes perfect sense. I will set this up for the 2.30 appointed time.
Avant: Hi Mr ****** Apologies for asking, but our surveyor is unable to attend at 2.30pm on the 20/01/16, would it be possible for you to rearrange the appointment for a morning visit ?
I’m sorry for the inconvenience and would like to reassure you that we have your best interests at heart.
Mr&Mrs: Unfortunately that answer would be no. I am not having my surveyor hindered in his contracted work. I have spoken at length with him regarding this and he has tried to do this on behalf of a customer before. What happens is whilst he is doing the snagging, measuring and inspection, the 3rd party starts questioning things and it ends up in a bun fight. The inspection then takes a lot longer. Also I have again had to book time off work and this again is at my expense. I have already taken days off work regarding the issues in 2016.
The cruxes of the issues are that this house has been thrown together and no care has been taken. The defect list is growing arms and legs. I have had to take this approach as I can see a long process in getting what I paid for, which a house is built to a set of standards. As you have already seen the tilling has not been done to the manufacturers recommendations. Floors are moving and creaking, doors fitted without security plates and the list goes on. I am sorry to have to put this in writing and do this, but if this was a car I would have had my money back now.
The house I sold to Avant was 12 years old and there were the odd creak in the floors but nowhere near what is in my house already, and some are in areas where you have already completed reworks. I took a lot of time researching builders and issues over the Christmas break and with what I found I have had to do this. Avant will not be the first builder to have to rip a house apart and this has been through incorrect installation of engineered joists. The NHBC standard for fitting these joists, noggins etc. is purely designed to stop creaking floors, what I found is where there are floors creaking it is 99% of the time due to faulty installation. And to remedy this it involves all the floors being removed. I understand you say you have my best interest at heart, but to be honest I don’t trust anyone at this moment in time. As we have been in this house for 5½ months and so far we have had nothing but broken promises. The only people I will trust is someone who I am paying, I will end up being £1,000's out of pocket on this, as your so-called tradesmen cannot be trusted and I will be forced to have someone standing over them when they do the remedial works.
Would your site manager not be available, or you as it is just being snagged against the NHBC standards which as I know are easy to read? It will be purely black and white, the standard says X, delivered is either X or Y. If it is X then OK, if it is Y then it needs putting right?
Avant: Thanks for getting back to me, I'll inform our surveyor you are unable to alter the date or time.
Mr Sad lol
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The issue with the floors could be the drylining!
Resilient-Bars is not a solution if this is the case.
Click on this link Joint statement (http://www.gpda.com/uploads/Joint_statement_on_cracking_sounds_from_ceilings.pdf) by the NHBC, GPDA and the Engineered Wood Product manufacturer’s in the UKTFA based on the research commissioned by the 3 organisations to find the location and root cause of the noise. The investigation was carried out by the University of Salford Acoustics Research Centre.
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Hi NHE
The cracking sounds are coming from when you walk along the landing past the bathroom which has a tilled floor, also when walking into any of the en suites where there are tilled floors. The rest of the floor noises are where we regularly walk and these are more of clunking sounds and they are slowly getting worse. We can walk into a bedroom and the little dressing table wobbles so the floor is moving.
We have also noticed that one of our shower trays now has gaps along the silicone at the bottom and when standing in it there are clunking sounds as if it is moving?
But thanks for your input we need all we can get with this one?
Mr
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Might be just a case of screwing down the chipboard floors with lots more screws - if you are lucky!.
I think the tile adhesive in the en-suites is cracking as the floor moves. They should have used special plywood screwed to the chipboard floor and tiled that.
Tim Fee will know what I mean
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Thanks NHE
Well tomorrow is the day so hopefully this will be the official start of the repairs once all is agreed?
Cheers for your help this far
Mr
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Good luck today.
Be strong.
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Well today couldn't have gone any better.
Our snagging Inspector Tim Fee from Snagging Inspections was here right on the dot and did a very thorough inspection.
Then at 14.45 the builder showed up with his surveyor. The surveyor was one hired in by the builder and we all walked around and they agreed everything. They are now putting a plan together to put all the work right. Tim was actually very impressed and he thinks I won't have any more issues. He also mentioned that he had done another Avant home and that was good as well. Is this Avant really trying to up their game?
I will keep you informed but so far so good!
Mr
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If it looks like a duck
Walks like a duck and
quacks like a duck
.....it's a duck!
I am pleased for you and hope Avant are as good as their word.
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Just a quick update.
We are now in a position where the 3 Bathrooms have all be completely re-built. We are at almost 90% complete of all works and Avant are in constant communications about the rest of the work. It does look like they are trying where we are concerned.
Mr Sad Nearly Mr Happy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Avant should have tried harder to do a better job in the first place.
Too often buyers like you are happy just to get he home you paid for after going through days, often weeks with workmen coming into your home, making a mess and putting things right.
At least it is good that they have come and done nearly everything, most housebuilders don't even do that!