Issues with DPC/leaking underneath Patio Door frame

[jjj1980]

Hi all,

New here so apologies if this is in the wrong place.  Need to ask for help regarding an issue I'm facing with leaking from under the patio doors and wrongly placed DPC.

Slightly different background in that I rent the house via a local Housing Association.  This house was built mid to late 2013 by Avant Homes (was Ben Bailey) and I moved in November 2013.  Previous issues have been sorted relatively quickly but recent issues are proving considerably more complicated.

Mid December 2015, I returned home from a day out to find a large, ever-increasing puddle extending from my patio doors.  The water has damaged a large area of laminate floor, ruined a rug that was laid over a metre away from the doors and damaged a table.

On reporting this to the Housing Association, one of their contractors came out and found there was no sealant between the walls an door frame, therefore allowing easy access for water.  He placed sealant round the edges of the frame an asked me to keep a watch on it over the Christmas break.  Unfortunately, it had not solved the issue and during further heavy rain, more water was coming in.

Avant have advised the house is no longer under their 2 year warranty so the Housing Association sent their contractor back out today.  On further investigation, he believes there are a number of issues contributing to the ingress of water:

- The external patio is slightly higher, by around 0.5in than the internal floor
- There doesn't seem to be any damp course laid under the patio
- Avant filled in the gap under the outer trim of the patio doors to stop it dropping underfoot but no drainage area has been left
- The damp proof course, whilst being correctly placed compared to the external floor, is actually 2.5in above the internal floor and no "stepping" made.  I think from his explanation he meant that the DPC stys at the same level throughout the wall, rather than being curved down under the internal floor.

The Development Manager at the HA is going to speak to their solicitors tomorrow regarding taking this further with Avant as a Building Defect but has said she feels Avant will stand firm that the house is outside of the 2 year warranty so there would need to be a claim made under NHBC.  The contractor that came out today is arranging for the patio and trim to be lifted so that further investigations can be made into the source of the water.

I just want to gather some further knowledge to make sure I am understanding any responses from the HA/Avant.

Many thanks

[New Home Expert]

Oh dear!
Unless this clear cut defect was reported by you or the housing association to Avant before the 2-year warranty period expired, Avant will have now escaped.  Even worse, this is unlikely to be covered by the NHBC warranty for years 3 to 10 which only covers  structural defects and drainage.
If it was reported in writing then either Avant or the NHBC should fix it.

As to the cause. my guess is that the drainage slots in the patio frame are either blocked or not there. This would mean all rain that gets in the frame (which is normal) cannot escape and will gradually find its way into the home.  I don't think this has anything to do with the DPC under the patio frame, or the height in relation to the ground level. However, is the ground outside level with the patio door frame. If so, rain water may be being forced under the frame.  One solution would be to fit a vertical DPC behind the frame at the cill extending down into the cavity. The dpc exposed internally above the floor finish on the cill could then be covered with a upvc trim.  Mastic under the frame is not ever going to be a solution.

You should also be compensated by the HA or Avant for the damage to your flooring and furniture in my opinion.

[leahjmorgan8]

Dear All

I have a problem similar to this.

Last year we purchased a new build property and we are experiencing damp near a threshold. We have pulled up edge of carpet and grippers and can see black plastic poking through floor and then on the side closest to the threshold we can see the edge of red bricks and sand and it is very wet. Also there are woodlice which seem able to come and go as they please. It looks like the damp proof course is coming up inside the property and that our carpet is bridging the damp proof course.


We have very little faith in the developer and have allowed them to experiment on fixing the problem but thus far it has not worked. Our neighbour is having the same problem but much worse and they have 'fixed' her issue with Mastic.

We have obtained quotes for a specific defect report from a surveyor in the hope they can correctly identify problem and proper solution however at £500+ we cannot afford this.

We are concerned they will try to do a quick fix bodge job to get them outside of the 2 year warranty and we are not happy that mastic is an acceptable solution. What can we do?!

Thanks in advance!

[New Home Expert]

They probably will try and bodge this.  Look at the attached!  A Charles Church (Persimmon) buyer has spent over two years trying to get them to fix the same issue you have. Now they say its the weather!

Write to the warranty provider if the builder isn't sorting it out. That way if it re occurs after the tow years it will still be covered as an unresolved defect and the warranty provider should fix it.  Mastic is NOT the solution. You need a vertical DPC as a barrier. You should not be able to see the back of bricks.

Perhaps you should get a report from Snagging Inspectors or Brickkickers. I am sure Martyn at Brickkickers could help you if you contact him and send him photos.  0845 226 6036  07711 381939
Martyn@brickkickers.co.uk 
I am sure he can do you a report for a whole lot less than £500, especially if you mention Phil from brand-newhomes.co.uk recommended him.

[leahjmorgan8]

Thank you!

We will contact them.

We have placed Premier Guarentee on notice and will be filling in the dispute resolution form depending on how our next visit (tomorrow) goes! I cannot see it going well as we are quite clearly seen as a nuisance. They fail to make the link between their shoddy work and our complaints seemingly thinking we have nothing better to do!

[The Prophet]

Premier Guarantee is, in my opinion not as good and the NHBC warranty. 80% of new homes have an NHBC warranty for a reason.

Perhaps you should ask Persimmon why they did not offer an NHBC warranty?
Was it because NHBC inspectors kept noting too many items?

[FenMan48]

We have a crisis which is not going to help you.
The building of homes is becoming more technical but the house builders are becoming less technical.
In fact they are becoming good accountants but bad builders.
They rely on sub-contractors to work to drawings designed down to a price.
The industry works to the lowest tender and the sub contractor hopes to grab money back by changes to specification.
Many sub contractors do not get paid on time and pull of the job or go bankrupt.
The job changes from Design and Build to Build and Design. In other words what is on the drawing is not what you get. Inspection is negligible as you will find if you do a Subject Information Request. I honestly believe inspection boxes are ticked from the nearest motorway service station.

You are now left with the problem which water always finds. You cannot solve the problem without expertise which the house builder does not have. In order to find out the real problem a specialist consultant may have to remove bricks. This may invalidate your warranty. Applying mastic would be a waste of time.
 
You will need to write to the house builder or whoever your contract is with and ask them to employ a specialist consultant to find the problem with a report to both parties. Give them one month to plan this and if they do not go through NHBC/ a.n. other.  Copy the NHBC etc on your letter. The house builder will try to employ a contractor or whoever did the job in the first place (so they do not have to pay for it). Question the credentials of their consultant. All correspondence in writing, no telephone  calls. Every action recorded and plenty of pictures.

If you get through this stage then its on to a specification and then a scope of works for completion. Do not accept poor quality and question if the sub contractor who screwed up in the first place is the right company to get it right. This will have cost you time, money and inconvenience so do not forget the compensation.
Wish you luck.

[New Home Expert]

You make some valid points and have an accurate insight into this dreadful industry.
It is true, house builders are accountants. Most of the housebuilders' CEOs have accountancy background, the remainder worked their way to the "top" from the hod, trowel or hammer.
They know the price of everything but the value of nothing!

The drawings may as well have "for guidance purposes only" stamped on them as no single new home will be built exactly to the design drawings or specification.

But in the original poster's situation, the only option is to pursue the housing association, the landlord.
It is the property owner, who is responsible for the damage being caused. It is up to then to go through the stress etc with Avant (good luck with that!) and the warranty providers not the tenant.

My advice would be to write to the HA and inform them that if this is not permanently fixed, you will move out, and withhold rent due to the value of the damage done to your belongings.