New Home Owners And Snagging Forum
Advice on buying a brand new home => Snagging and defects => Topic started by: simba_ali on May 29, 2020, 01:39:09 pm
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During the recent storms I had a leak which stained the plasterboard quote badly. The leak was from the above roof/door of a balcony.
I'm convinced it's leaking under the door cill and down through the cavity wall onto the ceiling below. This is because it only seems to happen during heavy rain and wind.
The other possibility is it's coming in from the flat roof right at the top and dripping all the way down the cavity
It's a 3-story townhouse and there is no supporting wall for the balcony. It had 2 metal beams running the full width as support.
My house is out of the 2-year defect and I'm with Premier Guarantee. I'm not sure who I should call as without ripping the door out or roof it's very hard for anyone to give advice as to the cause.
Any ideas would be appreciated greatly
Regards
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Hello
During the recent storms I had a leak which stained the plasterboard quote badly. The leak was from the above roof/door of a balcony.
I'm convinced it's leaking under the doorsill and down through the cavity wall onto the ceiling below. This is because it only seems to happen during heavy rain and wind.
The other possibility is it's coming in from the flat roof right at the top and dripping all the way down the cavity
It's a 3 story townhouse and There is no supporting wall for the balcony. It had 2 metal beams running the full width as support.
My house is out of the 2 year defect and I'm with premier guarantee. I'm not sure who I should call as without ripping the door out or roof it's very hard for anyone to give advice as to the cause.
Any ideas would be appreciated greatly
Regards
The building in which I work, constructed some five years ago, suffers with similar leaks. Its dependant on the wind direction and how hard it is raining. But the rain water is coming form balconies above.
I'm not involved in the legal aspects, but this is being challenged as a latent defect. Litigation has been implemented, are the developers are being held responsible to repair & rectify. They were due to start investigative works, but the lockdown started.
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Hey,
Thanks for the reply.
My property is shared ownership and I tried to report this as a structural fault to the housing association but they just replied with that it's out of warranty and all maintenance is my responsibility. I had a roofer inspect it saying he could watertight the roof but couldn't say if that's the actual problem as without pulling the balcony decking up or the ceiling down it's impossible to say.
The insurance have told me to get quotes before they can give an opinion which I can't do without destroying the house around the balcony. I kind of expected they would do the inspecting.
My next stop is booking a door maintenance company to come and have a look and try and give some insight. Hopefully we aren't due a storm soon as all I can do at this point is put sealant under the door as best I can.
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With one of our residents, thats exactly what happened. The plasterboard ceiling was removed, and the fault found. I believe they took legal advice before this, which resulted letters being written, back & forth. But the developers ended up, accepting it was a latent defect.
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Sounds like the easiest way would be to cut a section of ceiling out and have a look.
I would of thought if water was coming in under the door frame and dripping below that it would be stopped by the cavity closer? That's the only detail that makes me think twice about it being the door.
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Water under gravity finds its way. But the only way to see that, is expose its path.
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Is it reasonable to ask the housing association or builder for plans on the construction of the door and roof so I can show any tradesman the building specs? And if so are the obligated to provide them.
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I would think it would be unusual to be a problem with the design, more likely in a failure of construction. It was and is in our case, requiring quite major works to rectify.
The fault could be in the property above yours, and may be not your responsibility, and indeed may prevent you from carrying out any repairs. So I don't think you having plans (IMO) would help.
If your property is out of warranty, and the developer is refusing to engage, I would seek legal advice, at this stage, on the best way forward.
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I probably should of said that it's not a flat, It's a house and both the balcony upper floor and the lower floor with the leaking ceiling are part of my property so it's definitely going to be my responsibility.
My thought process was if I knew how it was constructed it could point to certain areas that are more likely to be causing the issue rather than blindly pulling doors out and roofs down possibly causing more damage, I take your point though that the plans are unlikely to reveal anything, just me clutching at straws.
Two things are clear, it's either the door or the cavity wall as all the leaking appears along a very shallow path and it's caused by high wind and heavy rain.
Do you know how the top of a cavity wall is normally closed? Mine has a rubber material which could be the culprit.
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Hey,
I probably should of said thst it's not a flat, it's a house and both the balcony upper floor and the lower floor with the leaking ceiling are part of my property so it's definitely gonna be my responsibility. :(
My thought process was if I knew how it was constructed it could point to certain areas that are more likely to be causing the issue rather than blindly pulling doors out and roofs down possibly causing more damage, I take your point though that the plans are unlikely to reveal anything, just me clutching at straws.
Two thing are clear, it's either the door or the cavity wall as all the leaking appears along a very shallow path and it's caused by high wind and heavy rain.
Do you know how the top of a cavity wall is normally closed? Mine has a rubber material which could be the culprit.
Regards
I'm not an expert in building construction, perhaps the forum owner might advise. My recent newbuild has no capping at the top of the cavity walls, other than fire barrier pads.
If you have balconies, as in our case its a failure of the flashing around the door frames and the tanking of the floor of the balcony. In our case, new door frames are to be installed with associated flashing etc.
You might have to employ someone to carry out the investigative work, to locate the fault to present a case for latent defect.
You'll still need legal advice, unless your prepared to pay for the works yourself. Guess its difficult at the moment, with the good weather we are having to replicate the fault.
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It certainly is difficult to replicate in this weather...all I've been able to do is stick a small piece of wood under the door cill and use sealant at the bottom and top to create a barrier and also seal the edges of the door cill with massive amounts of sealant to try and force water away. I have tried pouring gallons of water directly onto this sealant and sill and so far I see no signs of water damage below.. wind is a bit harder to replicate.
I have contacted many door companies but there is a delay due to current circumstances. So hopefully the sealant holds temporarily.
I'm not sure what path I'm going to take, I will probably end up paying for the repair work and hopefully claiming it back but Premier Guarantee has a £1,000 excess so I don't know what a door costs to replace these days?.
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I don't know the cost of doors these days. In my work place, I understand the cost of replacement wooden double glazed doors, they were double doors with side windows, was in the region of £2500 cost to the builder to supply. That would of been more to the home owner, if they had paid.
I would obtain some initial legal advice before proceeding with anything.
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During the recent storms I had a leak which stained the plasterboard quote badly. The leak was from the above roof/door of a balcony.
I'm convinced it's leaking under the door cill and down through the cavity wall onto the ceiling below. This is because it only seems to happen during heavy rain and wind.
The other possibility is it's coming in from the flat roof right at the top and dripping all the way down the cavity
It's a 3-story townhouse and there is no supporting wall for the balcony. It had 2 metal beams running the full width as support.
My house is out of the 2-year defect and I'm with Premier Guarantee. I'm not sure who I should call as without ripping the door out or roof it's very hard for anyone to give advice as to the cause.
Any ideas would be appreciated greatly
Problem one is that it is outside the 2-year warranty period when the housebuilder would be responsible for investigating and fixing. From what you have said, it would seem probable that the cause of the leak was evident on day one.
Problem two, is you have Premier Guarantee, the only "Guarantee" is that making a claim will be a long drawn out process and still cost you personally £1,000 even if they do proceed.
Problem three is I don't think you would be covered for insurance unless you can show it is a result of storm damage and even then they won't fix the latent defect.
I doubt very much the leak is being caused by the door alone. A new door would be unlikely to stop it. What you have done with sealant may help lessen the leakage short term.
From what you have said, it seems likely the leak is being cause either by a faulty of badly installed cavity tray or that no cavity trays exist at all. The plans should show if they were indicated on the working drawings. getting a copy of these again is another matter entirely as builders seldom provide them.
I must add that the Housing Association should be interested in ensuring their share of your property does not degenerate and I am surprised they are uncooperative in this respect. Especially so as one of their inspectors I suspect, would have checked your home throughout the build and on completion.
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Thanks for the reply,
I did think it could of been something to do with the cavity tray but it has the plastic drain holes indicating they should be there but I have no idea.
The property seemed fine for over 2 years until January with no signs of water damage then it happens 3 times within 2 months.
During heavy storms.
The reasons I believe it's the door is
1) The gap between the door threshold and decking is only 1 cm.
2) The leak is always directly under the door and between 2 supporting metal beams for the above wall.
3) It doesn't happen unless you have wind rain combination
4) It's a lot of water so unless there is a big tear in the roof membrane can that amount come from faulty trays?
5) From the first day we moved in there was a wooden strip directly under the doorsill which other properties didn't have which I naively thought it was to support the cill but obviously the builders probably knew something.
I'm at a loss about which direction to take, should I be arguing with premier or pressuring the housing association that this isn't a "maintenance issue"
After your advice about the cavity trays, I've had a look and discovered that there are weep holes above the door and 4 more above those but there are none at the point where the balcony rubber upstand is finished in the outer wall. So unless water is able to flow out at this point without weep holes, then there isn't cavity trays here. I'm assuming this means any water soaking through below the door line can flow directly down onto the ceiling through the cavity wall? If that is the cause then it means between 2-4 pints have transferred through the wall.
Thanks for any further advice you can offer, it's really appreciated
Regards
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I'm still of the opinion it is caused by cavity tray either missing, faulty or without ends turned up, insufficient weep holes etc.
That said, you could try to seal the gap under the door yourself.
Use Fischer expanding foam. Be careful not to get any on your hands clothes or carpet. Have rags kitchen towels and carrier bags handy.
Let it expand and dry (24hours) trim excess back with a sharp knife and use silicone sealant o cover. That way, nothing can get from outside in under the door.
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Yea I think I will try to seal the door, can't make it any worse.
The annoying thing about this kind of problem is knowing where and how to look, you could replace the roofing and door and still not fix the issue. Also waiting for heavy rain to test possible fixes .
If I do fix it I'll be sure to reply and let you know what it was as it might help others in the future!
Regards
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So I have some more information if it may help anyone in the future...
Out of frustration I poured gallons of water all over the external balcony wall and blew a hairdryer directly on it to create wind and I managed to make it leak. The water came through after 5 mins so my first thought was it's running down the wall (on the outside) and in the gap where the roof flashing meets the wall. I concentrated on this gap with more water and made it leak straight away.
So your thoughts of cavity trays seems correct or at least, a combination of missing cavity trays and badly fitted flashing.
I have researched building regs and it seems cavity trays are required in these areas so would premier guarantee cover this or at least moaning at the housing association that's it's required might help them do something or am I just wasting my time and should cover it myself?
Regards
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How much do you expect it will cost to rectify, have you had a quotation?
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To be honest I've had 2 roofers, 2 builders and a carpenter inspect it and all of them could only offer £50-70 an hour investigation fee because it could of been so many different parts, but now I've narrowed it down myself (and saved money) to this one area I'm going to arrange different visits for a better idea of costs. I'm preparing myself for a hefty cost to install cavity trays in an existing wall :(
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I was thinking of going to a solicitor, but if it is only going to cost less than a couple of grand, that might not be worth it. You know how expensive solicitors can be. Have you legal expenses on your home insurance?
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So I've managed to make it leak directly at the balcony upstand without getting the wall wet so it seems that it's getting behind the upstand and running down the external face of the outer wall underneath the rubber upstand and not down the cavity wall as I assumed. From what I can see there is no visible damage to the roof timber so it must be falling directly down the wall and onto the ceiling.
My Theory is the upstand has not been bedded correctly as there is flex when pressing it and with enough water pressure caused by wind it's forced underneath.
I also think the lack of cavity trays is making it worse but not the number one cause.
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Premier Guarantee will expect you to pay the excess (£1,500 from memory) in any event which will in all probability be less than the cost of the works.
I would suggest you write to the HA and suggest that they agree to pay a percentage of the costs equal to the equity percentage they own in your home. You the get three quoted and clear it with the HA which one to proceed with and get the work done yourself.
By the way you must have on hell of a powerful hairdryer!