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21
Snagging and defects / Re: NHBC standards for chipboard floors on I-joists?
« Last Post by New Home Expert on September 30, 2019, 09:14:55 am »
What is needed is the statutory New Homes Ombudsman, but this government looks like it is giving control to the industry to crate their own voluntary new homes ombudsman - like that will work!

If you read the pdf what is required is the plasterboard and adhesive cut back below the floor joists.
In addition, stronger (deeper) joists or more joists fitted closer together, or existing joists properly stiffened to manufacturer's requirements may also be required.
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Snagging and defects / Re: NHBC standards for chipboard floors on I-joists?
« Last Post by new_home_17 on September 30, 2019, 07:45:11 am »
Thanks a lot for the reply.

The noise is awful but to my absolute amazement when the Constriction Director visited last week he said he would not be sanctioning any work in the kitchen as he felt what was done in the living room (resilient bars) had improved it to an acceptable level. He told us to contact the NHBC and he'd only do the work if they told him too. The arrogance is off the scale.

There's a number of issues with that. 1) He said all along he'd repair both ceilings 2) the kitchen is absolutely no different following work in the living room. 3) There's no technical reason why the living room work would affect the kitchen.

So today we'll contact NHBC to get them out.

What exactly is the repair for this? At the start of the this thread it was suggested that replacement of the floorboards. I know someone else who had the same issue and he had a combination of herringbone fixings to reduce joist deflection and extra screws in the plaster board.

Attached is a short snipped of the issue, when walking in the bedroom (bed 2) just above). Is there any scenario in this world where someone sane could listen to that and conclude its acceptable? I really wish there was a mechanism for house builders to be fined for frivolous referrals.
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Snagging and defects / Re: Large crack in ground floor
« Last Post by New Home Expert on September 28, 2019, 06:16:38 am »
These are structural and would be part of the approved plans for Building Control whoever did this. Usually local Authority (plans publicly available) or NHBC (apparently not so available!)

My guess is, that there is an attempt to get plans from the manufacturer showing 'as built' rather than 'as designed' (as should have been built)  - that would be fraudulent and dishonest though and we all know how trust-worthy plc housebuilders are!
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Snagging and defects / Re: Large crack in ground floor
« Last Post by DBailey on September 27, 2019, 03:05:55 pm »
So, NHBC and Taylor Wimpey now state that they cannot locate the floor construction drawings and are asking the floor manufacturer of they have a set lying around. Is there a legal requirement to retain these drawings? TIA.
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Snagging and defects / Re: NHBC standards for chipboard floors on I-joists?
« Last Post by New Home Expert on September 27, 2019, 10:32:40 am »
Please do log it with the NHBC.

Then read what is in this link which details what is causing the problem.
http://www.gpda.com/uploads/Joint_statement_on_cracking_sounds_from_ceilings.pdf

The NHBC are aware of this so should be able to tell Redrow Homes what they have to do.
Resilient bar isn't the answer.

I would also question the deflection of your floor joints, if you notice it, it certainly isn't "normal" whatever any housebuilder tells you, which most of the time is an outright lie to avoid doing expensive extensive remedial works.

Make sure your joists aren't bodge stiffened like these!
The strength against deflection is in the web not the top or bottom flange so any extra timbers should have been full depth!  Clearly no manufacturer would sanction this work.

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Snagging and defects / Re: NHBC standards for chipboard floors on I-joists?
« Last Post by new_home_17 on September 26, 2019, 10:14:40 am »
Hi, hopefully resurrecting this old thread will be ok...

I bought my Redrow home 18 months ago and have been dogged by the cracking sounds from the ceiling/floor structure since around 2 weeks into the ownership. Initial barrier was the absolutely appalling customer service which explains most of the reason it is still not sorted.

We have a 4 bed detached and the noise is happening in the living room (below bed 1) and kitchen diner (below bed 2, directly behind bed 1 (same joists). We don't seem to have it in the diner part of the kitchen/diner which is below the bathroom and bed 4.

Like others, the initial work was to screw the ceilings back in both rooms, hundreds and hundreds of screws and the initial result was positive. For a couple of weeks all was quiet, great! Then little pops/snaps appear, then more, then more, then its multiple loud cracks under every footstep again.

Recently we had the living room ceiling pulled down and refitted with resilient bars in between. I'd say that about 90% of the cracking sounds have gone but I'm not convinced it will stay that way. Now when someone walks above you can hear like a twist noise. Its hard to explain but I imagine that the joist movement is still there but now its fighting against the bars. I suspect the noise will return.

Kitchen/bed area needs attention and I'm wondering if there is any progress on this and what the correct repair should be. It seems quite clear Redrow Homes don't understand what the problem is. This thing that also surprises me is that they seem to be convinvced its the ceilings yet there's no visible cracking or nail pops or anything. If it was moving and causing the sound it must show signs of it??

In a previous post it suggests resilient parts are not the solution. For me it is not addressing the root cause. One thing we immediately noticed (and bought to Redrow's attention) was how springy the bedroom 1 floor seemed. When in bed and someone walks past it shakes. We had a little vase on top of a chest of drawers that would wobble when we walked past it... they dismissed this as normal.

The other question is whether I should get NHBC involved?
Redrow Homes are engaging the issue now but should I log it with NHBC anyway?

Thanks in advance.



27
Snagging and defects / Re: Large crack in ground floor
« Last Post by DBailey on September 21, 2019, 12:58:05 pm »
Thank you so much for such an informative response. It is pretty much what I thought, it just didn't look right!
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Snagging and defects / Re: Large crack in ground floor
« Last Post by New Home Expert on September 21, 2019, 10:23:33 am »
Looking at your photos, I've no idea what is going on here as its wrong on so many levels.
But I'll hazard a guess.
What you have is a structural suspended slab. It is not "ground-bearing" as the beams support the load of the floor. Two beams together are supporting the load of a wall which is sort of standard.
I am amazed that you have some stone fill in between the beam as this will puncture the DPM. It appears the stone fill is to temporary shuttering supporting the concrete screed over the beams.
Again amazed there is no mesh reinforcement in this concrete.
So the crack is definitely a structural issue and claimable under your NHBC warranty.
If fact there are many breaches in warranty standards (which the NHBC deem are guidance when you claim!)

You should try and get hold of the working drawings and specifications, especially the structural engineering drawings. These should be publicly available at whoever approved them for Building Control.
You may not get to keep them but you should be able to see them.
If you have difficulty do a subject access request.

Taylor Wimpey did use a system of suspended floor, with polystyrene in between the beams.
Given your home is only 5 years old it is questionable how it could meet building regulations for insulation without any floor insulation!

Finally, it is best practice that any gas service pipe is formed in steel barrel pipe, painted with two coats of bitumen paint and wrapped in 'denzo' tape.
Plastic sleeved copper pipes are not suitable for gas service pipes in this location.
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Snagging and defects / Re: Large crack in ground floor
« Last Post by DBailey on September 20, 2019, 12:02:42 pm »
Figured out pictures!
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Snagging and defects / Large crack in ground floor
« Last Post by DBailey on September 20, 2019, 11:52:04 am »
Hello everyone and thanks in advance for any advice and guidance you can offer!

We are in year 5 of a Taylor Wimpey home we bought from new in Telford.
Whilst in the midst of an upheld NHBC claim for a leak (they forgot to fit undertrays to the roof of the 1st floor dormer) we noticed a large crack in the floor, from one side of the house to the other, roughly central to the property.
Eventually, we get someone out to look at it, very dismissive, further communication and they agree to come dig a hole. Man arrives with drill, digs hole, hits gas pipe that they didn't know was there because no-one at NHBC thought to check the drawing! Much cursing ensues.

The line of the crack follows the line of the gas pipe, clearly this is why it has snapped here not but not why it has broken in the first place.

NHBC man still dismissive and adamant that is is "not structural" despite not having a clue what has happened.

I am looking for some advice about the overall build here -I think this house has not been built correctly but this is not my area of expertese. In the pictures (aaargh, can't work out how to add pictures!) below you can see the tops of two beams. The infill is loose pebble, is this right? There is DPM but no insulation, that seems wrong to me. The positioniong of th beams is slightly weird to me as well as there is a weight bearing wall jsut 450mm across from the crack - why have two beams here? Does anyone know of any resources I can go to that might help out with this?

Does anyone have any experience of anything similar. I am somewhat at my wits end here!

thank you,
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